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Man Alive: What To Do with a Woman’s Anger with Ilan Stephani

There is a she, and he, and she’s in full blown anger, which is a very good setting for him to kind of support her or her nervous system in how to fulfill the circle, how to release the charge. As long as she’s in this ice-cold bitchiness, it’s very hard because her nervous system doesn’t offer a release state… And that’s not a good jumping board. But this full-blown anger, it’s very, very good. First of all, men, you do not have to do something for her or with her. And the most important thing for him, I think, is to stay grounded in himself. And the best way to do that is to make sure he’s not shut … So, you are, as a man not shutting down, which means in my situation, whenever I want to make sure that I do not get into a freeze or shutdown mode, I stand there and do a shaking in my whole body, so that’s very, very important. The moment you are shouting at me and I’m standing there, “Ooh,” breathing deeply, looking at you, and shaking in my whole body, voluntarily, vividly, with all my legs and arms, and all my … Yeah, all my structures in my nervous system and body, I, first of all, support my own nervous system in taking on the lead in this intensity of the situation.

Shana James:

Hello to you, readers. I’m so happy to be here today with our guest, Ilan Stephani. Thank you so much for talking with me.

Ilan Stephani:

Thanks for you, Shana.

Shana James:

We will talk about what to do with a woman’s anger and your own anger too. So many men come to me wondering, “Oh, my God, what do I do when she gets mad?” And there’s this sense of either need to get it to go away, or, “I need to meet it with my own anger” or just total confusion of like, “What do I do here?” This is a really confusing place for a lot of men. And of course, you have your own anger, those of you listening. And what to do with that? And how do you express it in a way that’s safe and that actually creates more connection or intimacy rather than breaking things apart further? Thank you so much, Ilan, for being our guide with this important topic.

Ilan Stephani:

Such a powerful topic. Thank you so much. It’s a bit weird for me, I admit to be interviewed as somebody who could guide someone  through that. Because I remember so vividly being completely shut down around my own anger. It’s still absurd for me that I am talking about my anger and on the other hand, I did so much in order to reclaim the power of my anger, that I think I’m an expert in how to fail, and how to keep struggling, and how to finally find the breakthroughs as well. So, I’m very, very happy to share whatever I found. And let’s see where we go from there.

Shana James:

This is so great. Because I remember when I was 27 years old, I was driving through Golden Gate Park. I had this feeling, and I was like, “I think I’m angry.” It was the first time in my life that I remember being angry because I have been a woman who just immediately went to “sad”. My anger channel was totally blocked off to me. My mom was very angry, and I decided I was not going to be angry! And so, I just was this nice, good girl, who would be sad and going more into the depressive place. And so, it sounds like you had a journey. What was your journey with anger?

Ilan Stephani:

Yeah, very, very similar. I got numb instead of crying. But what you pointed out is something that is so heart-breaking because I hear it over and over again. Women saying, “I got angry, and then I somehow got sad.” And in, I would say, 95% of all cases, the sadness is not sadness. It is an escape from the anger energy because the anger energy feels too much for the woman. And I think, first of all, we really have to acknowledge that in our collective wounding, as men and women, we come from different places when it comes to anger. So, a woman totally misunderstands why a man is angry, and how he is angry, and what he is experiencing inside while he is angry or mad. And the other way around as well. So, I could wrap your question up around how that’s a very typical dynamic between the sexes. The man thinks the woman needs something to be fixed. And the woman just needs him to hold space. But when it comes to anger, it’s not about this challenge. That’s a side aspect of the whole nightmare. Let’s come from the story of a good girl, because that’s the collective suffering. When we get conditioned as girls, we learn, “You are part of the sex that is in danger due to the own biology.”

Shana James:

Yeah.

Ilan Stephani:

And if you are conditioned as a boy, you are conditioned to believe, “You are part of the species that is a walking danger.”

Shana James:

Interesting.

Ilan Stephani:

“You are dangerous.” So, that means that men learn to suppress their anger because they fear what they are capable of if they become angry. Women struggle for the rest of dignity and a little bit of excess for the anger and their anger power because they want to feel safe. They do not want to feel in danger all day long. In other words, a good girl, never, ever experiences safety. With the best lover on earth, she doesn’t experience safety.

Shana James:

Wait, how come? Because she’s not feeling her own power? 

Ilan Stephani:

Exactly. Exactly. Eventually, we feel safe with the other one because we know, “I am my best backup ever,” and then love on top. And then the, “We,” on top. But first and foremost, “I am responsible for my safety, and I’m ready to fight against you whenever it’s truly needed.” So this is all coming from the woman.

Shana James:

Okay, I just want to slow this down. It’s hard to understand. The woman feels like, “I am my own backup and I am ready to fight against everything.”

Ilan Stephani:

And a good girl is never, ever allowed to fight for herself. And if she tries to fight for herself, she gets belittled. She gets laughed at. “Oh, sweetie. Yes, it’s okay.”

Shana James:

Right.

Ilan Stephani:

And that is partly why men struggle so much with a woman being angry, that the woman still has with her anger also the desperation, “You won’t take me seriously anyway!”

Shana James:

Because she’s going to get even louder and bigger?

Ilan Stephani:

Exactly.

Shana James:

And I feel like there’s this hybrid too because I can see where I’ve gone through the good girl phase. Then I went through the phase of, “Okay, now, I’m going to try and actually have anger or just allow anger.” And my clients come to me and there’s a sense of their partner being bitchy, or cold, or a little bit distant, or pissed off. There’s that low-level of anger. And then there are the good girls who never get angry. And I have this theory and I wonder what you think of it. It’s like, “Even the ones who are kind of a little more bitchy or pissy, seems like it’s because of not actually fully expressing the fullness of the anger.”

Ilan Stephani:

Yes. It’s like you do not warm your whole system up with your anger. You do not allow the fire. You only allow the charge. And that is the definition of the bitch. It’s like this snappy, “Wait, I will never forgive you.” And this cold, snappy bitchiness is not our essence.

Shana James:

No.

Ilan Stephani:

And that’s very tragic. It’s a struggle.It’s really a struggle and it’s really, really complicated. The best thing that a man can do with a woman’s anger is taking it seriously that she is a potential killer, herself, as well.

Shana James:

Wow! Interesting.

Ilan Stephani:

And this being taken seriously helps our nervous system to restore the sense of dignity and safety that comes with the self-responsibility of your own anger.

Shana James:

Okay. Slow that one down.

Ilan Stephani:

Of course. Yeah.

 

Shana James:

I love you. You’re so wise that you drop these bombs. And I think you don’t even realize it. Okay. So, if he sees her as in her own right, she is a killer, right? Can you translate that into modern-day? What is he supposed to do with either the bitchiness or that full-blown explosive anger?

Ilan Stephani:

The full-blown explosive anger, I do not want to glamorize that. And I also want to just put the footnote here first that me, as a woman, or as a girl, I never ever learned that I could be of danger for anybody. And the truth is I can kill another being just because I studied that over the course of the last millions of years in evolution, like every other living being as well. It’s very important for men to know they are conditioned to think, “I’m a walking killer. I’m a monster inside. And she’s a walking victim.” And so, women, when they tap into their anger, they are completely unconscious and unaware of their explosiveness.

Shana James:

Yes.

Ilan Stephani:

Women are unaware in most cases of their aggressiveness and how brutal they are. So if a woman is saying, “I would never harm somebody,” and their partners are “Who’s talking there?”

Shana James:

“I’m scared of you.”

Ilan Stephani:

Yes, exactly. And women, really, we can’t see how much men are afraid of women and how much men are afraid of their partners. I really want to acknowledge that job that men have there, seeing where she has her blind spots. And at the same time, helping her release this charge that comes from 4,000 years, it’s not an easy task.

Shana James:

That’s a really beautiful way of saying it. It’s like in partnerships, we could actually help each other. I see partnership as a way to grow and heal together. And so, releasing the charge is like, “Oh, this interesting way of viewing anger.” Anger is a charge. It’s a fight. It’s a stand for something. It’s a belief in something, and how to actually help as a partner, let that come through. As opposed to, like you said, the kind of fading, or fizzling, or when we just turn into that bitchy, defensive woman.

Ilan Stephani:

Yes. Let’s put it into a very concrete situation. There is a she, and he, and she’s in full blown anger, which is a very good setting for him to kind of support her or her nervous system in how to fulfill the circle, how to release the charge. As long as she’s in this ice cold bitchiness, it’s very hard because her nervous system doesn’t offer a release state.

Shana James:

Right.

Ilan Stephani:

It offers a kind of frozen hatred of revenge.

Shana James:

Oh, man!

Ilan Stephani:

And that’s not a good jumping board. But this full-blown anger, it’s very, very good. First of all, men, you do not have to do something for her or with her. And the most important thing for him, I think, is to stay grounded in himself. And the best way to do that is to make sure he’s not shutting down.. So, you are, as a man not shutting down, which means in my situation, whenever I want to make sure that I do not get into a freeze or shutdown mode, I stand there and do a shaking in my whole body, so that’s very, very important. The moment you are shouting at me and I’m standing there, “Oooh,” breathing deeply, looking at you, and shaking in my whole body, voluntarily, vividly, with all my legs and arms, and all my structures in my nervous system and body, I, first of all, support my own nervous system in taking on the lead in this intensity of the situation. And secondly I am the partner animal for this full-blown anger animal that resonates in a very alive way.  That resonates in a way of, “Wow, I get that there is a lot of energy coming from you.” And that is the opposite of belittling her. The opposite of fixing her. And it is a nervous system to nervous system language for, “I’m taking you seriously.”

Shana James:

Thank you.

Ilan Stephani:

And then the second important thing is you do not have to celebrate her for saying, “No.”

It’s not okay, “Okay, after 4,000 years of not being allowed to say, ‘No,’ she says, ‘No,’ all the time. And that’s sacred. And she needs her healing.” She is doing her healing job right in this moment, fully, on her own. And that’s her job. And that’s her capacity. And that’s also her willpower. And you, as a man, can do the same thing in the same moment. So, whenever she’s saying something, and it’s hurting you, how about standing there and saying, “I’m hearing you, and you are pissed. And I’m sorry if I hurt you. And still, this doesn’t work for me. Here’s a boundary.”

Shana James:

Exactly.

Ilan Stephani:

“And you’re not allowed to cross that as well.”

Shana James:

Yeah. I talk about that with my men that the middle way, it’s not a collapse and it’s not a posture or an explosion, or a belittling, right?

Ilan Stephani:

Wonderful. Yes.

Shana James:

You just said it. That I’m grounded in my body and whether men are open to doing the shaking and moving their body in the midst of a conversation, or whether they think, “Well, my partner would think that was super weird,” they’re all possible.

Ilan Stephani:

And even in a fight. If it’s a partnership fight. I think in a conversation, it’s a bit unrealistic.

Shana James:

And if they learn from you and their partners are part of this dynamic, they could all learn to do that. I just want to highlight the foundation is what you said, which is brilliant. Staying grounded in your own, it’s like your strength in your heart, right? The balance between “I am here, I am strong. I am with you. I’m not discounting you. And I’m also standing up for myself, and what is okay for me.”

Ilan Stephani:

Yes. And that’s such a wonderful lecture because part of the human drama around anger is either you have your rights or I have my rights.

Shana James:

Right.

Ilan Stephani:

And this doesn’t serve anybody.

Shana James:

If its jut one or the other. 

Ilan Stephani:

So, the moment that I’m shouting at my partner, and he is celebrating my boundaries instead of his own, he’s not supporting me.

Shana James:

Okay. We’e got to slow that one down too. So, if he’s celebrating my boundaries, but letting go of his own?

Ilan Stephani:

Yes.

Shana James:

It’s like a win-win. Is that what you’re saying?

Ilan Stephani:

Exactly. And it has to be a win-win.

Shana James:

Yes.

Ilan Stephani:

Anger is here as a powerful piece because it can bring self-dignity, self-empowerment, and self-love to all of us.

 

Shana James:

Yes.

Ilan Stephani:

So, the moment that I am, as a woman in relationship, shouting and trying to recover from the “good girl conditioning”. And my partner is welcoming the intensity of the situation, and is learning the same thing in the same moment, we are a win-win-win match. And that’s so important. And it’s completely invisible for most women that I know, how much men give up their own boundaries in order to support the women in their healing journey. And I appreciate that so much. I mean, men are such a generous species.

Shana James:

I know. I appreciate men so much for that. And I’m also like, “Wait, no, this doesn’t work, right? You can’t lose yourself in the process. Otherwise, there’s no “you” there to be loved. There’s no “you” there to be in partnership.”

Ilan Stephani:

I think women do not have a clue around how hard that is, but most men in this society feel castrated by the structures. For good reasons. And since it’s so invisible, it’s really like, “Wow, I am my own back up. And she might not even see how hard this is for me.”

Shana James:

“I am my own backup.” I know we talked about it before, but I just want to understand what it means in this situation. How does that play out?

 

Ilan Stephani:

Eventually, it is if I would have to decide at any given point between the “we” and the “me”, I would choose the “me.”

Shana James:

Okay. So that’s what you’re saying? That a woman has to get to that place of her own strength?

Ilan Stephani:

Just everybody.

Shana James:

We just all do?

 

Ilan Stephani:

Every living being. Everybody who wants to feel safe and intimately connected with others is wired for this underlying structure.

Shana James:

To choose ourselves?

Ilan Stephani:

Yes. Choosing ourselves first. It’s like that love and self-love are one and the same. Its only revealed to us if we are willing to put self-love first.

Shana James:

Interesting.

Ilan Stephani:

Self-love first. The whole thing recovers from there. If we say love is in any given moment, more important than self-love, we are inheriting the confusion.

Shana James:

Yes. And that speaks to, I think what we were saying is that if men are giving up themselves, that’s a lack of self-love. It’s a lack of standing up for themselves. That the whole foundation gets crumbly because there aren’t two self loving, grounded, mature people to come together and collaborate. It’s more like two balls of wounds or two wounded young people trying to figure that out.

Ilan Stephani:

Like we all are. I mean, it’s also so beautiful to fail together, and to learn together. It’s such a beautiful journey.

Shana James:

Tragic and beautiful.

Ilan Stephani:

Yes, tragic and beautiful. At the same time. Wounded, wounded and beautiful. Sacred, and super painful and full of suffering as well. And I want to just quickly mention that self-love was something like a word that impressed me so much in my path that I was like, “No, no, no, I am not into self-love, that’s just too much.” It’s too extreme. Like, “Am I loving myself? Ooh, no.” It was just too complicated, too mental. It was too much. What was this term charged with? And self-love eventually is very simple. It is, “Do you sense yourself? Do you sense your skin? Do you sense your feet?” So, whenever I’m standing in front of my partner and there’s a lot of confusion and intensity going on, I’m not stressing my mind order on “I must start loving myself,” and it’s a complicated term, and that impresses me to death, but it’s rather, “Do I sense my feet?”

Shana James:

Yes. “Am I in my own body? Am in my own space?”

Ilan Stephani:

And again, inner vibration, or maybe even visible shaking helps a lot just with making sure my energy keeps running through my nervous system. Everything comes from there.

Shana James:

And instead of getting stuck, or frozen.

Ilan Stephani:

Yeah. Especially what men do very brilliantly, I think, as far as I see them showing up. This term around presence. It’s so courageous, how they really, really struggle to stay present and they’re really doing a great job. And it would be way easier if presence wouldn’t be like a mental term because it’s not. It’s a very healthy, body state of just keep vibrating. So whenever it is about presence, it’s not about, “Keep staring at her. Keep stopping your breathing. Stay in the here and now.” It’s rather like … Whatever it is. But it’s like, “Stay in this animal state of being with a vibe.

Shana James:

You talk about the tiger and the tigress, right? Again, some men might be like, “Yes, I get it.” Other men, you’re listening, you might be like, “Wow, that’s a little strange to think of myself as a tiger,” but I can feel that there’s this primal, energetic animal state. And when you watch an animal, there’s a constant motion. And allowing things through, even. This is a different example of an animal, but when a deer has something, they get run over, or not run over. 

Run past by a car or something happens. There’s a shaking that happens in the energy to release that trauma. And we, as humans, tend to just grip. And like you said, stop breathing.

Ilan Stephani:

Yes. And really, the power potential of relationships is releasing a few thousand years of freeze and shutdown from all of us. And I’m longing so much, I’m looking so much forward to a future where it’s not only about us knowing the female woundings in this path, but also the male woundings. And of course, then the woundings of all other sexes as it’s all intertwined. I think how harsh it has become for us to function.

 

Shana James:

To function.

Ilan Stephani:

In raw words.

Shana James:

Yeah. I’m wondering too, if you have a idea about this, I mean, I think this is something that I help men understand too. And I want to take your perspective. Do you have a sense of why people get so mad at each other and why that anger comes up in a relationship dynamic?

Ilan Stephani:

Yes. If I love you, my deepest wish is to surrender. Let’s say, in your arms, into my inner power and inner softness, not into collapse, not into weakness, not into force. Into the power of softness.

Shana James:

Power and softness instead of posture and collapse?

Ilan Stephani:

It’s one and the same. And the only ingredient that’s truly, truly needed for that is absolute safety. And we learn we have to dare intimacy. We have to dare to love. And I disagree. We have to fulfill the circle of rage that comes in the first place.

Shana James:

How do we fulfill the circle of rage? Help us understand that.

Ilan Stephani:

Allowing it to come up. And that is what’s happening. “I love you. So, I’m closer to my longing for melting in your arms.” My nervous system knows the only chapter that’s open. The only chapter that we need to re-enter is our anger. It is saying, “No.” And by saying, “No,” being so fully safe, that the yes opens up in my nervous system instinctively.

 

Shana James:

We got to slow these down too. You said the only chapter left is to open the rage, the only chapter to get where? To get to intimacy, or closeness, or connection? So, the only chapter left, the only thing that is standing in the way of us actually being really connected is being with each other’s anger?

Ilan Stephani:

Yes.

Shana James:

I just think you have so much wisdom in every sentence. It’s good to clarify to help us understand it and translate it all in there.

Ilan Stephani:

What I wanted to say is we are a little bit Hollywood brainwashed around, “Love needs love.”

And I think we are witnessing a lack of love in this world. And that is not because love is lacking, but because our willingness to stay with each other’s anger is lacking. We suppress it.

Shana James:

I’ve been thinking about this. I’ve been thinking about the connection between honesty, and passion, and intimacy. And when we’re honest, we get frustrated, we get angry, we get upset. And there’s a way to artfully navigate that together. But if we’re just stuffing it and trying to be nice with each other, which is what a lot of people do, or we also, I think stuff, it, like we were saying, there’s the bitchy woman and the kind of cold distant man, that’s still stuffing the depth of what’s actually going on. So, it’s all getting stuffed in there as opposed to, like you’re saying, “Let’s meet each other in this place,” which I think is terrifying for a lot of people. It’s still scary for me.

Ilan Stephani:

It’s super terrifying because it’s also a lot. We are not prepared for how powerful we are. And without pushing another depth into this conversation, but how men can deal with their own anger is really, really losing the inherited fear of male power. We need men who stand in their power and by that, provide us a role model for male power being of service for peace and safety instead of burning this planet down. So when we are talking about anger, we are actually not talking about anger. We are talking about symptoms of suppressed anger.

Shana James:

Interesting.

Ilan Stephani:

We are talking about war and violence. That’s not anger. Anger is a, “Hell, stop. Hell no,” but it is not about violence. It is about efficiency and willpower. It is about individuation.

 

Shana James:

Just take your power and say, “No,” it’s not actually going and acting violent toward another. Which is an interesting distinction too.

Ilan Stephani:

Yeah. I mean, it’s not about revenge. It’s not about a story. Let’s say it in these words: anger is a full contact power. It’s maximum intimacy with a situation of threat and of, “I want something, and I care for life in this situation. And I disagree.” And all of that is so suddenly over when anger is allowed to run through my nervous system, then maybe it’s a fight, but the fight is over and the rest of life is peace.

Shana James:

Interesting.

Ilan Stephani:

So, why people are stuck in the violence is because their nervous system keeps coming up with this charge of anger and then gets a full stop in the middle of the cycle. And the stop and go is always agitation or agitation and collapse, agitation, collapse, stress, collapse, stress, collapse. And that is like Hollywood harmony and then a breakout.

Shana James:

Right. Not letting it through. And I can see one of the things I would imagine. And actually couples tell me, it’s like nobody wants to feel blamed, shamed, attacked. I think we’ve associated anger, at least in our culture, with attack, with blame.

Ilan Stephani:

Yeah.

Shana James:

And it’s not necessarily, right?  I wonder too sometimes when I support my men with this. Taking the content out of the fight, and just letting some of that energy through again, I think that can often feel very strange to people who’ve never done anything like this before, who’ve never toned, or groaned, or anything like that. Couples are like, “What are you telling me to do? This is so weird.” And it can be so helpful. I listened to one of your recordings in the music about just shaking through the anger and letting it through. And I think that’s another way too, is that when we’re doing some of our own work to release our anger on our own, we can then actually bring more clarity to our partners.

Ilan Stephani:

Yes. Because what you say, “Anger provides us with clarity, and focus, and efficiency and action.”

Shana James:

Yes.

 

Ilan Stephani:

And, “Let’s be a little bit challenging.” Yes. What we suggest is weird because if the normal mass solutions would work. They would have already worked. It’s like, “Do you want to be bored with answers from yesterday for the future of tomorrow? Do you want to be bored? 

Shana James:

“Do you want to be bored in a passionless marriage where you’re resenting each other?” 

Ilan Stephani:

Yes. And also in terms of self-growth, or in terms of challenge, or in terms of adventure.

Shana James:

Yes.

Ilan Stephani:

Lfe should be so much more about, “Can I reduce the amount of adventure?” Instead of, “Can I escape from 9 to 5?

Shana James:

Wait, can I reduce the amount of adventure, you’re saying?

Ilan Stephani:

I think that’s a more realistic challenge for us. If we awaken to the inner powers, it’s like, “Ooh, could my life please be a little bit more boring? It’s so adventurous.” This is way more  closer to reality than us wanting to have at least a little bit of party at the weekend. And I think it’s tragic that we are so stuck in boredom, but it comes from us wanting a solution that somehow doesn’t seem to be weird. And I want us to be weird.

Shana James:

Right.

Ilan Stephani:

I want us to be weird.

Shana James:

I love it.

Ilan Stephani:

I want more courageous, weird men who invent new mistakes because they dared to step onto a new path. I want new stuff.

Shana James:

I love your challenge. I tend to be a little more in the, “Okay. I do so many weird things,” and I look at other people and I think, “Well, they’re going to think that’s really weird.” So, I love that you’re challenging like, “Okay, if it worked to do fights the way we do them, we would have a much higher success rate in our relationships. And we’d have people who were a lot happier, less depressed and anxious.

Ilan Stephani:

We wouldn’t have a job, Shana!

Shana James:

Yeah. So, let’s shake it up, and let’s actually allow ourselves to feel it, and welcome it from another person. Again, not shame, blame and attack, but the energy of anger or the passion.

Ilan Stephani:

Yeah. And it’s so wonderful when I also get asked about, for example, projections. And my answer is almost always, “All of us are projecting all the time. You can relax, yes. She’s for sure, projecting on you. Yes. That’s happening right in this moment. Just like yesterday, just like tomorrow.”

Shana James:

Just like tomorrow?

Ilan Stephani:

As well.

Shana James:

What do you tell them to do then after that?

Ilan Stephani:

Exactly what you are telling them as well. It’s about whatever the story is. It is a superficial layer. And underneath, our nervous system is just craving for, “See me in my instincts, see me in my power. And if you see my know, and if you see my dignity, I will be able to feel so safe with you that I’m the happiest person on earth melting in your arms. So, it’s almost like, unlearning the blockages that prevent us from loving and melting. Instead of heading for more love, be nice. That’s the good boy and the good girl trauma.

Shana James:

Right.

Ilan Stephani:

I mean, the good girl trauma or good boy trauma is somehow that “you want to be loved, so be lovable.”

Shana James:

Yes.

Ilan Stephani:

And that is why it doesn’t work. We tried to skip the anger chapter, right? But the anger chapter comes first. The anger chapter comes first. And we are not in charge of this decision. It has been made millions of years ago in other genres, in other eras. It is written in our nervous system. If you cooperate with your instincts, you are wired for passion. You are wired for power. You are wired for softness. And you’re wired for strength. And if you do not cooperate with your instincts, I’m sorry, but I think you will lose. I think it’s a losing game.

Shana James:

I love you. This is amazing. Thank you so much.

Ilan Stephani:

I do not see any neocortex being stronger than the animal inside.

Shana James:

Yeah.

Ilan Stephani:

And why shouldn’t we want to be stronger than the animal inside?

Shana James:

Yeah.

Ilan Stephani:

We are good animals.

Shana James:

Thank you. Thank you so much for this. And I can see that there might be some questions of … I think oftentimes, I help men. I practice with men. And they can stand in the face of the fire with me and feel their own nervous systems. And how would they respond. And I imagine that they can do something similar with you, like get into that that intensity. Do you help them see stay and stay grounded?

Ilan Stephani:

It’s really offering a training space for containing the own inner power. And I’m so, so happy to know that there are men stepping into more of, “I can tolerate how powerful I am.” Men are powerful and that’s so, so needed.

Shana James:

Oh, thank you so much. Where can men find more of you? 

Ilan Stephani:

Ilanstephani.com. And on the internet, I just love the internet as a way of us celebrating that we are interconnected, with and without the internet. But I think with the internet, it’s so much fun. So, Ilanstephani.com is my website. And then YouTube, Facebook. I try a lot of the various platforms of social media. I’m so happy to be connected to these fields of explorers.

 

 

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